Will Sampson talks about what it takes to go beyond just complaining about things to actually fixing what’s wrong. His guest is Ralph Bagnall from the product development department of Microjig, a company known for its innovative shop aids, jigs, and fixtures. He’s talking about a new work holding kit for CNC machines that Microjig has just released.
This episode of the Woodworking Network podcast was sponsored by FDMC magazine. FDMC magazine is your vital source of information to improve your woodworking business. Whether it is keeping you apprised of the latest advances in manufacturing, helping you solve your wood technology problems with Gene Wengert, or inspiring you with case histories about successful businesses and best practices, FDMC magazine is there to be the sharpest business tool in your shop. Learn more and subscribe for free at woodworkingnetwork.com/fdmc.
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Intro music courtesy of Anthony Monson.
Intro:
Welcome to this episode of the Woodworking Network Podcast. Join us as we explore the business of woodworking big and small and what it takes to succeed. I’m Will Sampson.
Today’s episode is sponsored by FDMC magazine. My guest is Ralph Bagnall from the product development department at Microjig, a maker of innovative shop solutions. Among other things, we’ll be talking about some new CNC work holding jigs Microjig has developed. But first I want to talk about:
Are you a complainer or fixer?
We are constantly surrounded by people complaining about things, but very few people who actually come up with ideas to address the complaints. I don’t have much patience for the complainers, but I have always been fascinated by people who offer possible solutions.
Lean manufacturing enthusiast Paul Akers sums it up with the simple phrase: “Fix what bugs you.” But an awful lot of people would rather keep on complaining than actually trying to make the fix.
Of course, some might say, it takes no special talent to complain, but it does take talent to solve problems, to innovate, to invent, and to focus on fixing or improving things. It certainly is a talent, but I firmly believe it can be learned, much like playing a musical instrument can be learned. Not everyone who picks up a musical instrument can become a virtuoso, but they still can make some pleasant and entertaining music. In that same way, complainers can become fixers with just a little effort.
I think the first step has to be vision. Complainers can see the problem, but they don’t want to exert the extra effort to visualize a solution. Once you see the problem, the first step to see an improvement is to ask a lot of “what-if” questions. What if we did this differently? What if we had a special tool to help? What if we used a different material? What if we could do this faster or slower?
That helps to analyze the problem and perhaps to bring potential solutions into view. Next, you have to build your solution, first in your mind, then in the real world. Lots of times, the solution you envision in your mind is not so practical in the real world. That’s just an opportunity to try again and refine the solution. Edison made 1,000 unsuccessful attempts before he got a light bulb that worked. Successful invention and innovation is really just piling more fixes on top of failures until there actually is something that works.
People talk about the spark of invention, but rather than a spark, it’s more like a blacksmith’s forge. Metal is heated in the forge until it is hot enough and soft enough to work. Then the blacksmith manipulates the metal with hammer and anvil or other tools before returning the workpiece to the forge for more heat. This processes continues through many “heats” until a satisfactory finished product is accomplished. Accomplished blacksmiths will talk about how few heats it took for them to obtain a particular result, but that’s really just bragging. It’s the finished success that matters more than how fast or slow you got there.
I’m all about encouraging people to learn to see like a fixer. Look past the complaint to find the solution. Look past the first fix to find a better fix. Embrace continuous improvement in everything you do. Celebrate the solutions.
Before we get to our interview with Ralph Bagnall, let’s pause for a word from our sponsor.
FDMC magazine is your vital source of information to improve your woodworking business. Whether it is keeping you apprised of the latest advances in manufacturing, helping you solve your wood technology problems with Gene Wengert, or inspiring you with case histories about successful businesses and best practices, FDMC magazine is there to be the sharpest business tool in your shop. Learn more and subscribe for free at woodworkingnetwork.com/fdmc.
Now, let’s talk with Ralph Bagnall.
(0:09) Today, my guest is Ralph Bagnall from the product development department at Micro Jig. Welcome to the Woodworking Network podcast.
(0:24) First, let's get a little background. What's your role at Microjig?
0:30: Well, my primary role is new product development.
0:33: So Henry Wang, the founder of the company is still here and still active.
0:38: , and he's the primary driver behind all of our new ideas and such, but there's a lot that goes into creating a product after you've had the initial idea, there's a lot of refinement that goes on.
0:51: There's a lot of back and forth.
0:52: Henry and I work together,, you know, having conversations and sometimes arguments about what should be done and what shouldn't be done.
1:00: And then from there, there's the whole process of finding vendors figuring out materials, getting the patents done.
1:08: There's just a ton of work that goes in on the back end packaging, manual design instructional stuff.
1:14: , just a ton of stuff after the fact and my my primary role is to take a lot of that off Henry's plate.
1:22: So he's free to do what he does best, which is conceptualize and come up with the new ideas.
1:29: Oh, that's great.
1:30: Well, we'll get into that a little bit more.
(1:32) I kind of wanted to talk about how Microjig is known for its inventive jigs and figures. And I've tried and continue to use a number of them, but most of them in the past have been related to what I'd call conventional woodworking using things like a table saw handheld router. But the, the latest product offering is the collection of tools for work holding on a C N C router. That's a little change. Can you tell us about that?
2:03: Well, absolutely.
2:05: It is a change and it isn't.
2:07: So if you think about the match fit system, our dovetail clamping system, it is, it is just that it's a system.
2:15: So rather than using T tracks or some other method, you, any user can cut a dovetail groove, half inch wide, 14 degree.
2:24: And we have clamps and hardware that fit into that groove.
2:28: And so, you know, from there, we started with, you know, the clamps and then we went on to clamping tables with grids and all sorts of other things.
2:37: And I've been AC N C guy for many, many years.
2:40: Even before I joined micro Jig as a full time employee.
2:43: And one of the things I saw almost instantly is the way I make spoil boards for my C N C is I used to use T slots milled into the spoil board and the Match Fit system makes it easier because I can just build the same dovetail groove into my spoil board.
3:02: And I was using the hardware to hold down, you know, to make my own clamps and such.
3:07: And from there, we developed the idea of a true full clamping system for the C N C that works on the mi match fit system.
3:18: And it's fully compatible with people who don't have C N CS but are using the Match fit system, right?
3:24: You could use it for like a, a work table or something like that.
(3:28) When I first tried out the, the C N C tools, I had a a match fit board that I had made, you know, previously for use on my table saw and I just took the, the runner off of it and, you know, screwed it down to the C N C and we were in business.
3:50: Well, yeah, and that's one way to do it.
3:52: We also with the C N C kit.
3:55: Pardon me?
3:56: We include a full set of instructions for making a spoil board for the user's machine.
4:03: Every machine, you know, every brand is a little different, every machine has a different bed size.
4:08: So we show how to figure out exactly what the working envelope of the machine is and then build a spoil board that's custom made for that machine.
4:19: And part of that is cutting reference grooves.
4:22: So that even if you don't have the board on exactly square and straight to the machine, when you mill the reference groups using the machine, then everything is aligned according to the, the machine's axes and it becomes very, very accurate.
4:40: But one of the things that's been lacking in the C N C world, at least as far as these, what I call benchtop C N CS.
4:46: The hobby type C N C machine is a universal clamping system.
4:52: Most of them come with a couple of overhead clamps that hold apart from the top, but that makes it very difficult to do things like planning down a, a glue up or a slab that you wanna make nice and flat so that you can do the next step to it.
5:06: If you go up a cutting board, you either need to have a fairly wide planar or, you know, even if you have one, if the grain of the wood is going in multiple directions, sometimes a planar isn't gonna do a good job.
5:19: And AC N C is ideal for being able to plan that all down now.
5:24: But that also means that, you know, if you think about the router sleds for planing slabs that are available.
5:30: Now, most several manufacturers make them for handheld routers.
5:34: Those also have the issue of how do you hold the part from the edges so that the bit is clear across the entire top of whatever you're trying to plane down.
5:44: And our system has three different components that work to hold the parts from the edges.
5:52: And they do it not just through pressure but actually the, the way they're designed, the pressure is pushing down on the part as you apply sideways pressure, which means even if there's a little bit of flex, the flex is gonna be down toward the table or the bed rather than up.
6:09: And,, we have patents pending on, on that system right now that look like they'll be,, they'll be granted fairly soon.
6:17: And so it's a great system that gives you that advantage of being able to hold things from the edge.
6:24: And, you know, I found it useful for sanding parts on a, on a workbench because again, I can stand the whole top of the part without my clamps being in the way,, handheld, with a, a hand plane, the, you know, our edge guides are low profile and the metal screw that holds it in place is inside the plastic.
6:45: So I can use my hand plane without having to worry about catching an edge on a piece of steel if it comes off the end of the board, you know, when I make my full stroke.
6:54: So I don't have to worry about it.
6:56: And that's, that's great.
6:58: You know, we, we ought to probably pause here for a moment and, and, you know, for those in the audience who might not be familiar,, while most of the larger professional grade C N C machines use vacuum pressure for work holding,, a huge number of mostly smaller machines don't have vacuum tables or pods or, or any of those kinds of things and they have to rely on mechanical, hold down.
7:22: So what this kit does is, is offer some tools for mechanical, hold down.
7:29: And there are you know, a huge number of, of different table configurations, you know, out there as far as T tracks and different kinds of, of spoil boards and all that.
7:41: How, how did micro jig develop something that could be relatively universal?
7:47: Well, again, you know, my background, I've been doing C N C since the mid nineties starting in the industry.
7:54: So I'm very familiar with the vacuum that you refer to.
7:56: And the thing about vacuum though with even you can use it on smaller machines if you want to, but vacuums always about square inches, the more the bigger the part, the better it holds very small parts, especially parts that are oddly shaped, are hard to hold.
8:12: And so most of these and vacuum pumps that do that are usually pretty expensive.
8:18: So I've always looked for a physical clamping solution on the smaller machines on my benchtop C N CS.
8:25: And you know, I've been teaching people to make them for a long time, but all of the clamping pieces that you wanted to use had to be shop built, you had to design and make your own.
8:36: So when we started using the match fit system on the C N C here at the micro jig shop, we were making clamps and hold downs and, and you know, holding blocks and different things.
8:49: But then we came up with, you know, we just decided, look, let's just make the products for our customers so that they can do this.
8:57: And the first part of it was locating your part is always kind of a tricky deal.
9:02: So where is the corner or the center of your part when you're setting up on the machine?
9:08: Every time you clamp a piece in it's in a different location.
9:11: So our edge guide part that comes with the kit mounts to the board, it references off the cut edges that we show you how to do and it's exactly two inches wide.
9:22: So now once you set that up, you have a known zero point that you can save in your machine.
9:31: And if all your programs can be written off that zero point now.
9:34: And so everything, every time you use your machine, you don't have to try and find the zero point for each part.
9:41: And if you're doing multiple pieces off of different boards that becomes very useful, then we have other pieces that hold, press parts against those stops or against each other.
9:52: And again, all of this is low profile 3/16 of an inch right up against the board.
9:57: So you can work the top of the piece without encountering any tools without risking your router bits.
10:04: And then for more traditional holding for heavy duty milling, we do have a set of four what we call U pads that hold the part from the top down like a traditional clamp, but they're not.
10:18: So when they hold the part, they're holding on the top, but also at the very top of the edge.
10:25: So what you get is you're not just trying to keep the part in place through a friction, you actually have a physical barrier to it, moving left right front or forward or back.
10:36: And so we've created a system that will cover probably 99% or 95% of the clamping needs for the average woodwork.
10:46: You know, some high end people are always gonna have to do other things.
10:49: But, this will do 95% of the clamping that I need to do in my shop for sure.
10:55: And that's kind of how we, we came up with it.
10:57: It was a natural kind of extension from the match fit system.
11:02: We found ourselves taking bits and pieces that we had made for match, fit clamping on a workbench and started using it on the C N C.
11:11: Then we kind of said, well, let's just develop de dedicated pieces for the C N C and now we've come full circle and those pieces made for the C N C are finding their way back onto the workbench.
11:23: That's great.
11:24: And, and I, I really appreciate it when I was playing around with them.
11:28: The, the low profile feature and then the, the, the you know, material being fairly friendly in case you accidentally hit the, the the clamp and the repeatability and the of getting your, your home point was definitely excellent.
11:50: I had, you know, manufactured a little jig myself, that sort of does what the micro jig does better.
12:00: And I also really appreciated the, the one that's designed to apply pressure in the corner and, and push in toward that home point to lock things in safe, safe and sound and, and all that was a great one too.
12:18: And, and the, the there are some that are, are round that operate on a cam cam system, which I, I found those worked really nicely too.
12:31: In fact, I had tried to make some cam lock type ones myself.
12:37: and I was not real successful with them.
12:39: They just were not reliable, but these seemed to work pretty, pretty well.
12:45: I kind of wanted to delve a little bit more into the creative process that you alluded to at the, the beginning.
12:51: Now it's my understanding that most of the products that micro jig officers have come out of the brilliant mind of the company founder Henry Wang.
13:01: Is that still the case?
13:03: Is, is there a team at work or is it Henry's ideas?
13:07: And then, then you and other folks polish it or how does it work?
13:11: Well, primarily it's I, you know, he's, he's been the driving force since day one, he invented the gripper in his own garage.
13:21: And you know, we've, he's gone on to that.
13:24: I will, I will say that a lot of the driving force behind the C N C kit has been myself because I know this area.
13:32: But again, the match fit system was Henry's.
13:35: he and I are a team.
13:36: There's no question about that.
13:38: But he's definitely the lead and my, my role is primarily support and I do play devil's advocate quite a bit.
13:47: because I do have 40 years of experience as a professional woodworker so that, you know, that's a valuable asset to the team.
13:55: But generally speaking, yeah, Henry is the the driving force.
14:00: and Henry's attitude, Henry's philosophy, deli design philosophy has always been, he doesn't wanna make another version of what everybody else is making.
14:11: And so,, I don't know if you're familiar with the story, but the Gripper, our flagship product started out because Henry was trying to make a cutting board with thin strips glued together into a pattern.
14:25: And he found that cutting the thin strips was difficult, dangerous.
14:30: And he didn't like the results he was getting with burned edges and, you know, not flat, not consistent parts.
14:37: And so he spent a couple of years developing the gripper to allow him to rip narrow strips safely cleanly and effectively so that,, you know, he could make his spoil board, sorry, his,, his cutting board and that's kind of where it all started.
14:55: So the philosophy has always been, we're not gonna make what everybody else is making.
15:00: , you know, we've talked about, let's say,, you know, minor ganges, you know, there's, there is room for improvement there, but there are so many companies making some very good miter gauges on the market already that at that point, we're just competing with everybody else and,, we're still a relatively small company, so it's harder to compete.
15:24: So we're always looking for those blue sky kind of ideas.
15:28: The match fit is certainly one of those,, the Fit finder which came out recently is, is definitely a unique piece that's kind of where we're always looking is for, you know, doing things that nobody else is doing or in a way that nobody else is doing it and in some ways, it becomes easier because we have less competition in the market.
15:50: But part of the problem is that we then have to educate the consumer as to what we're making or what we're selling.
15:58: So, you know, if you're, if you bring out your own version of a miter gauge, you don't have to explain to most woodworkers why they want a miter gauge.
16:07: They know that you have to convince them why yours is the best with something like the fit finder or even the C N C kit we're talking about right now.
16:16: We're explaining to the customer, not only why you want this, but why ours is a good deal of good value useful and, and worth having.
16:27: So there are advantages and disadvantages to the system, but that's kind of where the design element starts.
16:34: And then with that overarching structure, then it's a matter of, hey, you know, I was trying to do something in my shop this weekend and I have trouble getting this particular cut made or, you know, doing that other thing and one or the other of us will come in, you know, it's unpredictable when it happens.
16:55: But, you know, we'll sit down and start talking about that and then start, you know, from there, it's drawing and you know, talking about it and thinking about it and coming up with ideas and then we'll make prototypes and test.
17:08: We have 3d printers, we have AC N C machine, we have a fully equipped shop.
17:13: So we're always kind of prototyping and, and doing that sort of thing.
17:18: And the number of products we get to a certain point that we end up abandoning for any number of reasons is kind of shocking.
17:26: Yeah, I was going to ask about that because when you're prototyping and testing a new product, what kinds of things are you looking for?
17:34: And, and what kinds of things might lead to rejecting a product idea?
17:38: Well,, we're, we're always looking for ease of use.
17:44: We're always looking for simplicity, but more often than not.
17:49: two, there's two major things that cause us to abandon an idea.
17:53: Well, I'll call it 31 is we have a great idea, but it's just not practical.
17:59: It's not gonna work, right.
18:01: And that's not uncommon.
18:03: Then the next one is the next most logical one is OK.
18:09: It's a great idea.
18:10: We can make this product but it's not gonna be cost effective.
18:14: We can make this product, but it's gonna be too expensive, you know.
18:17: , it's just not gonna be practical one of the things and I'll just give an idea.
18:22: , you know, the, the clamping tables, we've shown them at shows, we have several that we've made.
18:27: , lots and lots of our customers have made, you know, dovetail clamping systems tables, especially with the legs that rise up and down, so you can adjust the height.
18:37: This is something we would love to bring to market.
18:39: But by the time we get it all made and shipped to the customer, the cost is just prohibited.
18:46: So we're still looking into it.
18:48: But that, that's one that, you know, may or may not ever make it to mark.
18:53: And then the third thing is, you know, we've come up with some really great ideas over the years, but you get to a point where it's like, ok, it's a great idea.
19:02: It would do this one function that is very difficult to do, but that's all it can do.
19:09: And so it becomes a one trick pony and it becomes very difficult to justify the cost and expense to bringing a new product to market.
19:19: If you don't have a clear vision that you're gonna sell enough of them to justify the cost.
19:25: , you know, the tooling to make, the most of our products are injection molded and the tooling to make that is very expensive.
19:33: And then on top of that, you've got the whole development process,, writing good manuals and, and all of that is extremely difficult and time consuming.
19:43: So a lot of companies these days is dispense with the manuals.
19:48: And you know, to be honest, micro jig has a, has a reputation for doing very good manuals and very good instructional materials.
19:57: And that's something that we believe strongly in.
20:00: , you know, it's not always easy to write clear,, you know, compelling instructions that make it easy for customers to get the idea, especially when you're trying to introduce them to something that isn't, you know, another miter gauge that all you have to show them is how yours works.
20:18: , we, you know, we typically have to instruct them in the entire process of what this product does and, and how to use it.
20:27: And again, the fit founder is a good example of that.
20:31: You know, there's a lot of things that you do in woodworking where you'd want to know the, the halfway point, the, the half thickness of something like for a half lap or bridal joint or that sort of thing.
20:42: And yeah, you can use digital hike gauges, but then you got to do the math and fiddle with it to get exactly the middle distance.
20:49: with our system, it's all automatic and there's no measuring in market.
20:52: So, but it's, I always thought that was one of the most clever things that micro jig ever came up with that was, that was really definitely a different animal.
21:03: It is.
21:04: And, and, you know, we have a little bit of an upgrade kit.
21:06: I'll, I'll throw out a little secret here.
21:08: We got a little bit of an upgrade kit coming for it.
21:10: , in September.
21:11: Or later this fall.
21:13: So, you know, that's, that'll make it even more useful.
21:17: But yes, it's a very useful tool because it's not just about finding the halfway point.
21:24: It's also very useful for transferring dimensions.
21:28: I don't necessarily need to know what the height of the blade is.
21:32: But if I want to make a router cut the same height as my saw blade, I can use this tool to transfer that dimension physically without having to bother me.
21:42: And so, and that, you know, one of the things I've learned over the years in woodworking is a lot of times it's better not to measure, it's better to transfer dimensions from, you know, we know what we want the dimension between two legs to be.
21:56: But by the time you get the legs actually assembled, they may or may not be exactly what you wanted them to be, it's better to transfer the actual dimension they are rather than, you know, measuring in market.
22:07: And so that that tool does that very, very well.
22:11: But again, all of that is stuff that we have to explain to the customer in order to show them the value of the purchase.
22:17: And so that complicates the marketing side of our business a little bit.
22:21: Now, with this C N C jig kit, is micro jig looking at more tools for C N C manufacturing or, or is this a we've got a few things in the pipeline.
22:34: Right now the kit is available the full kit with all the various pieces.
22:38: So there's three of the edge guides.
22:40: There's two of what we call the ramp clamps.
22:42: A machinist would not as a tow clamp.
22:45: The ring clamp that you mentioned, which is the cam two of those come with it and four of the U pads, all in a single kit.
22:52: We also provide nylon screws for bolting your spoil board to your bed that way in case you accidentally run one of them over with your bit, you won't break the bit.
23:03: We include all that in the kit, but again, coming out this fall, we will, we will have all of those components available individually.
23:11: So if somebody does want to use one component or another, you know, on off the C N C or they want more for their C N C, whatever, we'll have an A la carte option as well.
23:24: Yes, we are looking at some other stuff, nothing I could talk about at the moment.
23:28: Until we get patents in place, we tend not to do that, but or at least patents pending.
23:35: But the there, there will be more stuff.
23:39: I don't know about like work holding specifically, but there's lots of area for the C N CS.
23:44: It's definitely the, the benchtop C N C is the fastest growing segment of our industry right now of the hobby, woodwork industry.
23:53: , I found the kit very useful for lasers as well as,, C N C si was gonna say that they,, you know, it, it isn't just,, hobbyists using the bench tops and, and a lot of guys that even have a, a full size,, industrial C N C,, will have a,,, a bench top or smaller unit like a four by four or whatever as a dedicated to specialty things like doing logos and, and you know, special projects.
24:28: So they don't tie up the, the full sheet nested base router that's, you know, putting out a bunch of cabinet parts.
24:36: Yep.
24:37: And so all of that is, is part of it.
24:41: You know, we do have a lot of things are coming out this fall.
24:45: We've got a number of pro products that we're planning to release in September and people should be watching for that.
24:53: Some of it's very, very interesting stuff.
24:56: But again, the C N C kit will be coming out is out and then the A LA carte individual components will be out.
25:03: But the, you know, the match fit system that it's all based around really, really does allow you to or allow the woodworker to kind of make whatever they wanna make anywhere you wanna have a, a clamp or piece of hardware or stop block, whatever you need.
25:19: All you have to do is cut the groove.
25:20: And I really like it for,, you know, auxiliary fences for the table saw, for example, I can have an auxiliary fence on my saw stop that we have here in the micro jig shop with the dovetail groove cut in it.
25:33: So I can put a stop block there.
25:35: And if I happen to cut through that groove, it's just MD F, I don't have to worry about accidentally triggering a s and that's, you know, that's always valuable.
25:43: So, and then I can throw it away when it gets all chewed up.
25:46: And I don't have to worry about, you know, wasting the aluminum extrusion.
25:50: So the whole system is very useful.
25:53: And it is a system that we're working with, like I said, it's kind of went full circle.
25:57: We, we took the system from the, the more traditional woodworking tools started using it on the C N C and now the C N C products we've developed are being transitioned into the, you know, we're finding uses for them on the more traditional woodworking stuff.
26:13: The instructional videos and, and manuals and stuff that we have for the C N C kit do show some of the ideas and opportunities for using this series of parts on other machines and other parts of your shop.
26:26: That's great.
26:26: Well, I'm looking forward to the, the new arrivals.
26:31: I always like to keep tabs on what micro jig is doing and, you know, it, it doesn't always apply to,,, our mostly professional audience but most of the time it does and, and,, I, I love to see what's coming out of those inventive minds.
26:47: , and, and thank you today for,,, giving us a little insight and, and how the stuff is,, comes about and, and,, where the ideas come from.
26:58: And,, definitely I'll be looking forward to,,, hearing more as time goes on.
27:05: Well, we really appreciate,, as a company, your invite to come on your podcast and, and I certainly appreciate it as a, as an individual.
27:14: I'm very glad to be here.
27:15: , you and I go way back and,, doing, doing things like this together from many years ago.
27:22: So it was, it was a pleasure to be with you will and,, you know, feel free to reach out to us anytime you have any questions or need anything from us.
27:30: Thanks a lot, Ralph and,, good luck in, in future endeavors.
27:35: END
That’s it for today. If you are looking for more of our podcasts, you can find all of them at WoodworkingNetwork.com/podcasts and in popular podcast channels. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode. Thanks again to today’s sponsor, FDMC magazine. If you have a comment or topic you’d like us to explore, contact me at will-dot-sampson @ woodworking network dot com. Thanks for listening.