Will Sampson talks about how passion for something doesn’t necessarily lead to a successful career. His guest is Joel Keener, 24, the winner of the 2024 #YoungWoodPro contest who is graduating from Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology and about to embark on his woodworking career.
This episode of the Woodworking Network podcast was sponsored by FDMC magazine. FDMC magazine is your vital source of information to improve your woodworking business. Whether it is keeping you apprised of the latest advances in manufacturing, helping you solve your wood technology problems with Gene Wengert, or inspiring you with case histories about successful businesses and best practices, FDMC magazine is there to be the sharpest business tool in your shop. Learn more and subscribe for free at woodworkingnetwork.com/fdmc.
Woodworking Network is a home for professional woodworkers, presenting technology, supplies, education, inspiration, and community, from small business entrepreneurs to corporate managers at large automated plants.
You can find all of our podcasts at WoodworkingNetwork.com/podcasts and in popular podcast channels. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode. Thanks again to today’s sponsor, Wood Pro Expo. If you have a comment or topic you’d like us to explore, contact me at will.sampson@woodworkingnetwork.com. And we would really appreciate it if you fill out the survey at woodworking network.com/podcast-survey. Thanks for listening.
Intro music courtesy of Anthony Monson.
Intro:
Welcome to this episode of the Woodworking Network Podcast. Join us as we explore the business of woodworking big and small and what it takes to succeed. I’m Will Sampson.
Today’s episode is sponsored by FDMC magazine. My guest is Joel Keener, a graduating student at Thadeus Stevens College of Technology and the winner of the 2024 #YoungWoodPro woodworking contest sponsored by Woodworking Network and Grizzly Industrial. We’ll talk about his thoughts about starting a new career in woodworking. But first I want to talk about:
Work and passion
For a long time, people have been parroting the slogan, “Do what you love, and the money will follow.” But I’m afraid that advice has set too many people on a path of disappointment, frustration, and lower financial compensation.
The only way the money will follow doing what you love is if you seriously focus on making money while doing something you love. Woodworking is a classic example of this.
How many woodworkers start because they like making stuff? I daresay most of them. Then they sell a few items and try to make a business out of it. But they are still focused on making the product, not building a business. Does the product have a market? Does the market value the product enough to make it worthwhile for you to make it? Have you even tried to answer those questions?
Too often woodworkers fail because they don’t face up to those realities. Business is a craft in and of itself that requires the same attention to detail that woodworking requires. And just as a piece of furniture will fail if the joinery has not been properly executed, a woodworking business will fail if you don’t pay attention to sales, marketing, profits, and costs.
Mike Rowe, a tireless supporter of the trades and star of the Dirty Jobs shows, has a different take. He suggests you should not follow your passion. Instead, he admonishes young people starting out in the world of work to learn to love what you do. He says trying to follow your passion rarely works out.
Instead, he suggests trying to learn skills that are actually in demand. He says “Then [do] what you can to love it. In the end, you still want to wind up passionate about whatever you’re doing, It’s just a question of the chronology you choose to get there.”
I see what Rowe is saying as putting skills and market demand first, then fostering organic growth of your passion for what you do. In a sense, it’s the opposite of “do what you love, and the money will follow.” It’s kind of “Go where the money is, and the love will grow.”
Clearly, there is a huge market for skilled workers in woodworking and manufacturing, despite what the media or public educators might say. I have never heard of a successful woodworking business that wasn’t on the lookout for good people. My advice to young people who are at all attracted to woodworking is to develop the skills by working in successful businesses. Learn both woodworking and business while you earn a decent living in the field. Along the way, you’ll likely develop a passion for both the craft of woodworking and the craft of building a business.
That’s a surer path to a solid financial future than taking out huge loans for degrees that don’t really promise a career path. Oh, and by the way, the original “do what you love” quote is attributed to Marsha Sinetar, a public educator with a Ph.D. who became a lecturer, corporate advisor, and author. Then she abandoned most of that for a more “spiritual,” low-key, rural lifestyle. Did money follow her passion or did her passion follow the money? You decide.
Before we get to our interview with Joel Keener, let’s pause for a word from our sponsor.
FDMC magazine is your vital source of information to improve your woodworking business. Whether it is keeping you apprised of the latest advances in manufacturing, helping you solve your wood technology problems with Gene Wengert, or inspiring you with case histories about successful businesses and best practices, FDMC magazine is there to be the sharpest business tool in your shop. Learn more and subscribe for free at woodworkingnetwork.com/fdmc.
Now, let’s meet Joel Keener, the 24-year-old winner of the 2024 Young Wood Pro Contest.
(0:11) WS: We are here with Joel Keener, the winner of our Young Wood Pro Contest. Welcome to Schaumburg, Illinois, for the Wood Pro Expo. And this evening we will officially present you your award. Well, tell me how you got started in woodworking to begin with, Joel.
(0:33) JK: So, I started back in high school, because I was trying to fill my classes up because you make your own schedule and everything, and I decided to do the woodworking. They have a little shop there and do the woodworking program there. So, I did that for one year, then needed to fill up my schedule again. I really enjoyed it. So, I did it the second year and then the third year, when I was graduating, I didn't have anything else to fill and I was like, I really love that class and because it was, I remember it was always one of the classes that I enjoyed the most, it never felt like work, just felt like a good time, good, fun. And so I did that for three years. And then that's really what got me into realizing that I really just loved the whole concept behind it, thinking and the math and all everything involved in that.
(1:24) WS: And so then you went from high school on to Thaddeus Stevens College and the woodwork program there and you're coming up on the end of that, you're going to graduate in May, I understand. Is that correct?
(1:38) JK: Yes. I graduate in May with associates degree for cabinetry and wood technology.
(1:44) WS: Oh, that's great. Well, let's talk about the piece that you won the contest with, tell us about it. It's a mid-century modern liquor cabinet and a record player.
(1:57) JK: Yeah, It could be considered an entertainment center. I call it a mid-century modern, credenza bar and record cabinet. It is a cherry case that sits on, tapered cherry legs that I made up. So it's a basically a case in a sub base and then inside is a tray and then also a dovetail drawer that is meant to store the glasses and everything. On the doors, I put offset knife hinges on, MDF doors with makore veneer on them that I folded over at the back, which is also MDF with makore.
(2:42) WS: Interesting, interesting. So one of the things I know that the judges were impressed with is the intricate details of the piece. And you know, particularly you mentioned the, the knife hinges. Those are definitely fussy and present a challenge for installing them, but they, they look so elegant in, in the piece.
(3:06) JK: Yeah, a lot of jigs to make sure that would work and everything.
3:09
Yeah.
(3:12) WS: And then I gather you, you also did things, so there wasn't a lot of, of visible hardware on the front of it.
(3:20) JK: Yes. So I used for the for the front, I liked the look of the sleek, flat look. I did buy handles and I was debating whether to put them on, but I could never do it. I wanted to use brass to make it look pretty, [in keeping] with the whole style of that time period, but it didn't really look right, and it took away from the V-match of the doors. So my end thing was I decided to put brass at the top to just give it a little accent, and also they could use them as push latches for it.
(3:58) WS: So, now what are your plans, post graduation? Are you going to open up a shop or go work for somebody else?
(4:07) JK: The current plan is to work for an architectural millworkwork place, then to save up so I can start to build a small shop and then do hobbyist stuff from there. Right now I don't have any dedicated space, but if I can clean out part of the garage, I can set it up, the table saw and everything.
(4:30) WS: Well, you’ve got to find a place for that nice new Grizzly table saw they're going to send you.
(4:36) JK: Yeah.
(4:39) WS: Well, I think that's a good plan to start working for a professional business first and learn how the business is conducted, and then you can definitely grow into creating your own shop as you're able to do so. But one of the things that I'm curious about, Thaddeus Stevens is a well-regarded school, but a lot of people outside of Pennsylvania may not be familiar with it. Can you tell us about the school and, and what you got out of it?
(5:17) JK: Well, the school itself, it's not a huge campus but it is very nice, quaint. It was founded by Thaddeus [Stevens, a Congressman from Pennsylvania in the 1860s]. He actually left money to get it started and everything for people who didn't have the opportunities to start their own businesses. So, it got everyone in the trades and then expanded from there.
(5:51) WS: I was just curious about this school and the program for woodworking there. What were you doing there?
(5:56) JK: I'm mainly working in a shop. First year, starts off with just learning your hand skills and everything and growing from there. And then you really get an understanding of how to using just simple chisels and dovetail saws and stuff like that to really get your hand skills down. And after that, then you start to actually build projects, which goes to shaker table. Then the next year is a wall cabinet and a bookshelf. And then second year, sophomore year, is where they will let you look for plans. I was actually given the opportunity to design my own plans, which I really appreciate because I had that plan for that credenza in my head for years. And so finally got the chance to actually make something I wanted to make with the shop.
(6:44) WS: And now you designed that in Autocad, you said?
(6:48) JK: Yes. So it was about three weeks because I had the idea in my head for years. So I knew exactly what I needed to do in Autocad. It was mainly just dimensioning and making sure everything fit with all the specs. And so, yeah, I use Autocad to design that slowly and all the parts, the case, the drawers, making sure the doors swung freely and didn’t hit anything as you tried to pull it out, as well as the base for it and everything.
(7:11) WS: So, you created in Autocad, a whole 3D rendering?
(7:14) JK: Yeah, Top view, right view, all that.
(7:18) WS: That's great. Now, did you have any particular instructor at Thadeus Stevens who was particularly inspirational along your way?
(7:29) JK: It was probably my first-year teacher, Steven Lata because he really got me interested in it because I could see the passion that he had for woodwork. He would choose pictures of these really ornate things that he made out of solid wood, and he'd think they were nothing because he made them. He was like, hey, after the 10,000 hours, he was kind of done with it. But it showed the craftsmanship and the dedication to it. Then after like a month of being there, I realized I loved the class because he always just had a way with getting everyone really interested in what they were doing and just pushing everyone forward Even if he had a bad day he was still able to keep pushing forward.
(8:10) WS: That's great. I've met Steve previously. He's a very meticulous and dedicated woodworker and does some beautiful stuff. So that's a great person to have as, as an inspiration. Now, did you have any kind of woodworking influence when you were little — a family member or anything like that?
(8:34) JK: There wasn't a ton but it might have happened because they're related. My family was big on camping. I know for a period of time that my dad worked in a cabinet shop and he really was interested in that. So, when he found out I got into the trade, he got really excited about that.
(8:56) WS: That's neat. You were saying, too, that he's a coin collector, and you're working on maybe some projects to make something for him for coin collecting.
(9:06) JK: Because he's retiring, he got into collecting coins. And so he's like, I got all these nice coins, but I don't have a way to display them. I have to pull them out of these cases all the time. So I'm starting to design and I'm milling up wood actually right now, just a small box. He can sit it on his desk so he can pull trays out and look at coins and everything, change the display, you know, as he, he wants to.
(9:33) WS: Yeah, that's great. Well, one of the things that I'm curious about is that we brought you here to Schaumburg, Illinois to the Wood Pro Expo and Closets Conference, to present the award, but also to let you experience what a professional trade show and conference is like. So, here we've dropped you into 1,000 other woodworkers. What's your impression?
(10:04) JK: Right now a little overwhelmed, but it is very, very intriguing as well as, I think, inspirational because it really shows where it can go, because I was just doing something small and everything, but it shows that if you go into furniture or kitchens and stuff and cabinets and all the bigger [things] that are more needed now for houses and stuff that the opportunity is still there. It’s still growing. Earlier today, you did the podcast with Grizzly, and I really enjoyed that because it does show that, when I got into the trade school, I was worried that the [woodworking] trade's dying, but it seems to be the exact opposite that I got in right at the best time, they're seeming to explode there.
(10:54) WS: There's definitely a lot of things happening. But one of the problems, which is a good thing for you, is that most of the industry cannot find good skilled workers. So there ought to be job opportunities if you want to work for somebody else. And certainly there are opportunities to make stuff that people want to have in their homes. Or, if you get into commercial work and businesses, if you're going to work for an architectural millwork company, there's a lot of big interesting millwork projects that are being done all across the country. And that's pretty spectacular work sometimes. So, there's a lot of opportunities out there. One of the things, you know, Grizzly is really looking at schools and small businesses these days, and that's why they sponsored the Young Wood Professional Program. And so I, I think that's a great benefit for us, and I hope it's a good benefit for you, a good launch for you in your business. You're going to have this nice new table saw, and you know, you've got a, a new future ahead of you.
(12:11) JK: Definitely.
(12:12) End
That’s it for today. If you want to learn more about the Young Wood Pro program go to woodworkingnetwork.com/ywp. If you are looking for more of our podcasts, you can find all of them at WoodworkingNetwork.com/podcasts and in popular podcast channels. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss a single episode. Thanks again to today’s sponsor, FDMC magazine. If you have a comment or topic you’d like us to explore, contact me at will-dot-sampson @ woodworking network dot com. Thanks for listening.